The Ideas Genie Community Forum

Bank Genie => General discussion => Topic started by: ianmcb on January 17, 2007, 12:12:39 PM

Title: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ianmcb on January 17, 2007, 12:12:39 PM: Important message

The issue of location of data files was resolved with the introduction of Bank Genie 3
For more information, please read this document:
http://www.ideasgenie.com/bankgenie/AboutVersion3/aboutversion3.html

This thread is therefore no longer relevant, and is retained for historical reference only.

Not directly asssociated with registering, but concerns Bill's worries about his data files. I have mentioned this before, but could the data files be in a separate specifed folder other than the program folder. The main data file could then be specified as a preference.

It also makes it easier to manage both the data and the program.

This is for those of us who have programs only in one partition and data in another, so that reloads of OS's are easier.
Title: Re: Problems registering
Post by: ideasguy on January 17, 2007, 12:50:44 PM: I dont want to change the present simple arrangement. Too many things built around that structure.

However:
With the new program BS026, you can do this yourself, Ian
BS026 allows you to switch to an alternative set of database files, either on your computer, or on Flash, or external drive.

Just use BG to backup your data files to a folder.
Presently, you will have to use BG to change Data source, to point to them each time you start up.

For advanced users, I can provide an option in Preferences to allow you to point to that folder on startup.
BG will then look for those files, rather than the files in Installation folder.

Any other BG users feel strongly about this?
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ianmcb on January 17, 2007, 01:14:57 PM: True. In fact I had thought of using BS026. I had hesitated as realised I had to be careful which files I was using if on the same drive. Hence I think the reasoning behind my request for the folder name to be specified on the input screen. (see my document)

However, your idea to make it a switch folder a start up preference is excellent. When can I have it?
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on January 17, 2007, 01:42:12 PM: Ive had a think about this, and its actually very easy.

Use BS026 to switch to another database - anywhere, including a network drive.
Get very familiar with that to begin with.

I will make a change to BS026, so that when you choose an alternative database, you can check a new Checkbox (thats the change I'll make), to make that the permanent file location, as stored in the Bank Genie system files.

Please note that Bank Genie is single user- no record locking - this means 2 users using the same database on a network need to work with care. Can discuss that in another topic if anyone want to do that.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: Bill on January 18, 2007, 12:57:58 PM: George/Ian

I accept Ian's point, I myself thought it strange that the data files are held within the program files section.

I think what you are now suggesting would be an inprovement.

Please make sure that any modifications carry compresensive instructions as if users are like myself "not to knowledgeable" about programs and file storage. Then it must be foolproof when inselecting an area where the data files are to be kept and that the program points correctly at that data.
I would hate to get into a situation where some data is being stored in one location i.e. where it is now and some getting stored in a remote location. We would end up with data that is not factual.

Regards
Bill
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on January 18, 2007, 04:16:17 PM: Please read the following threads which I have added today in Bank Genie board:

1.
Whats new
Using BS026 to Switch to an alternative Database on Hard Disc

2.
Requests and suggestions for additional features
Change the Default folder for Bank Genie data files

Please get familiar with the process in 1) above
Once you feel comfortable with using this procedure, and fully understand how to use it, then the implementation of 2) will allow you to change your default.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on January 18, 2007, 07:19:01 PM: Heres a summary,and what I propse to do.

By default, all files and programs are installed in a flat folder structure in:
c:\program files\Bank Genie
i.e. The Default Folder is the installation folder.

You can use Program BS026 to Switch databases, and access files in an alternative folder (see other threads on BS026 on this forum). You can create as many alternative folders containing sets of Bank Genie files as you wish.

Presently, this Switch only lasts for the duration of the session.
When you close Bank Genie, the system again looks for the default folder.

As discussed in this topic, you have effectievly requested an option to change the default folder.
A change to BS026 will achieve this objective.

Development notes (To do - to make the above workable):
1) Provide an option in Preferences to allow the user to select Advanced Mode
This will indicate that the user will accept the responsibility for any changes they make to the default configuration.
The Advanced option will allow the user to change the Default location of their Bank Genie files
2) In BS026 - (when a user switches to an alternative folder), to provide a check box to allow the user to set this alternative folder as the Default folder
This Check box will be enabled in Advanced mode only.
Note: The default folder can be changed at will, by re-running BS026
3) Provide "Where am I" messages to be made visible in normal operation, to make the user aware of the location of the Database files in use.

How does that sound?
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on January 22, 2007, 02:06:44 PM: Job done!

BS198 - Preferences allows the user to select Advanced mode
BS026 - In Advanced mode, a checkbox becomes visible. When you select another folder and check the new check box, the folder you switch to will become the default.

Ive updated the important screens with a message to indicate which data source is in use.

Its quite a simple thing. I do this all the time in our Garden software programs.
Thats how I work on multiple databases, all on one computer.

Heres the risks:
1. If you change the default to a removable disk e.g. a Flash Disc, then it stands to reason that Bank Genie will give errors if the Flash is not in the drive on startup.
2. The same thing will happen if you delete any files in the new default folder.

Suggestion:
Before changing the default, keep a copy of these files in a "safe" folder.
syspaths.dbf
syspaths/fpt
They can be used to overwrite the files you modify in the above action, so you can revert to original setup in the event of emergency.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: Bill on February 02, 2007, 11:17:49 AM: Relocation of the data files looks good. Any idea when it will be available and will I be able to download on to flash for transfer to the laptop.

Bill :)
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on February 02, 2007, 04:01:59 PM: Quote from: bill on February 02, 2007, 11:17:49 AM
Any idea when it will be available and will I be able to download on to flash for transfer to the laptop.
Bill :)

The January upgrade brought Bank Genie to Version 2. Its in that version.
The advanced user feature has been implemented and you can download (as a backup) , then switch for a) a single session or b) permanently - onto any drive - Local, Network, Flash or External.
Theres also a few new things - to make it a little more user friendly (I hope!)
I'll do a write up in "Whats New" to announce it, with Screen shots.

I have to work out the final details on how to distribute the upgrade from Version 1 to Version 2.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: Bill on February 12, 2007, 07:59:01 PM: George

Having purchased Bank Genie in January I thought I had version two complete with full screen options.
I dont seem to have it as I can't access the "Advanced" tab in preferences.

can you confirm that this is the case and inform me how I get version 2 so that I can stor my data in another place.

Bill.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on February 13, 2007, 04:59:26 PM: I can confirm that you do have Version 2.

However, as you know, Ive done some more work on BG, over and above the Advanced item above.

I havent published these on the web yet. I'll let you know as soon as I have done so.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: greenfinger on February 13, 2007, 09:18:01 PM: Quote from: Bill on February 12, 2007, 07:59:01 PM
George

Having purchased Bank Genie in January I thought I had version two complete with full screen options.
I dont seem to have it as I can't access the "Advanced" tab in preferences.

can you confirm that this is the case and inform me how I get version 2 so that I can stor my data in another place.

Bill.
Aha, a message with a face!
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on February 13, 2007, 10:50:01 PM: Yes! Nice touch, and well done Bill - 1300 messages so far on the forum, and thats the first time we can actually see who we are talking to.
I think thats a good idea.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: Bill on March 11, 2007, 05:38:27 PM: George,

I Keep looking for the version 2 update so that I can use the advanced feature but can't find it. Have you published it yet. If so can you tell me how to access it.

Bill
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on March 11, 2007, 06:47:32 PM: If all goes according to plan, I will make this available this week, Bill.

I can now confirm that Bank Genie upgrade from Version 1 to Version 2 will be issued on CD.

Heres the latest news on upgrades.
I will use the same process as Ive applied in the IG Pro upgrade (in that case Version 3 to Version 4)
I await the "OK" from the first customer to apply the upgrade, which was posted on Friday 9th March.
If that has no unforseen hitches, Bank Genie will follow, then Flower Genie, also upgraded to Version 2.

Please note that an upgrade preserves user data. This is not necessary in the case of new customers.
Thus, since development completion, new customers have been supplied with the very latest version of each product.
One customer has a new computer, with the very latest version of Microsoft Windows - Vista.
The very VERY good news is that he has reported that Flower Genie installed and functions normally.
That being the case, so will Bank Genie and IG Pro.
It makes 2 months of monotonous work MORE than worthwhile!!

Please excuse the delay - but testing takes time - and the precautions are necessary to avoid upsetting current customer installations.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: Bill on March 12, 2007, 12:09:28 PM: George,

Thank you for your prompt reply. I look forward to the release of the upgrade. Please don't forget to give explicit details of how to acquire the upgrade so that people like myself are able to get it right without endangering our precious files.

Regards
Bill ; D
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on March 12, 2007, 12:13:11 PM: Will do Bill.

I plan to build the project and burn the first upgrade CD tonight, and test tomorrow.

I'm as keen as you are to get this released !!
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on March 16, 2007, 02:49:45 PM: All systems go! All systems go! All systems go!
Bill
You already have Version 2, but you are one of a few customers who need a tweak to your database to enable Alternative Location for Bank Genie data files.
Ive sent you an email today, with full instructions.

Ian
You have Version 1, and need to upgrade to Version 2 if you'd like to enable all the new features, described here:
http://www.ideasgenie.com/bankgenie/AboutVersion2/aboutversion2.html

Other members:
If you are unsure which Bank Genie version is installed on your computer, this link will help:
http://www.ideasgenie.com/bankgenie/whichversion/whichversion.html
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: Bill on April 05, 2007, 12:30:32 PM: Hi George

Having now had a few weeks to trial the new features I can say that I think they make the operation of Bank Genie much better.

So Firstly "Good Work" well worth the effort.

I would just like your thoughts on the following points and if any other users have noticed the same things.

1) Firstly I downloaded the 13 files you suggested were the main ones and got things working I then downloaded the remainder of the updated programs some days later.
I noticed that one of the updates, "BS199" downloaded directly without asking to overwrite any existing program and it inserted a new folder in the Bank Genie folder called "Bank Genie-BS202" and in that new folder is "bs199", yet there is still a "bs199" in the main folder. Is this correct as all the other updates appeared to replace existing files.

2) I found changing databases using BS026 easy and have created another directly on the hard drive in a folder called "Accounts" and I can easily swap between the original database and the new one. the only thing I can't do is backup to the original Bank Genie location in the Program Files area. If I do a back up from either the original database or the new database in the Accounts Folder the back up goes to the Accounts area.
I thought at first that this was my fault as when accessing BS197 the System Back up Folders program there is the option to change where you want the back up to go.
When this is changed back to the original location it is accepted but when I do a backup using BS191 it goes through the validation process that the files exist but when I attempt the next move to complete the backup I get an error as follows:

GA191/4 File in use
Prog Name GA191/4
Error No 3
Message File in Use
Line No 0
Prog Code Foxcode table not found, is not correct version, or is incomplete
Prog Method BS191s02. Do Click
Error Date 28/03/07
Error Time 09.57

Am I doing something wrong here or is it not possible to revert to the original set up and have two areas that carry a backup.
On the positive side I can work in either the original database or the new database and both of them back up to the same file

Bill
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on April 05, 2007, 01:30:58 PM: Thanks for the feedback Bill - I'm pleased to note your comments.

RE Problem 1)
Ive just tried that download, and it does indeed have a problem.
I'll fix that tonight. Look for the published update later to BS199.
As for BS202, at time of writing this message, its at Version 15.
Check the version on your computer and download if necessary.

UPDATE: 5th April. This download has now been corrected

Problem 2)
2a) Use the Restore Files - BS193 program to replace the database in the original Program Files\Bank Genie folder.
However, make sure you are configured to startup in the Program Files\Bank Genie folder.
i.e. Use BS026 to configure the startup folder to be Program Files\Bank Genie, then do the restore.
Points to note:
When you do a restore, The Preferences file AND the Syspaths files (which store the Startup path, the Backup paths etc - all the fields whcih you change in BS197 and BS026) are also restored from the Backup.
Preferences may have to be reset, but only if you do the restore to the Program Files\Bank Genie folder

Ive now added a fields in BS197 to show a) the System Folder value. and b) the Startup Data Folder values.[/color]
By default both are .\ (in words, dot backslash)
If you go that route, be sure to run BS197 to check the Startup Data Folder settings after the restore.
Ive also added a Reset to default button in BS197. If you are in any doubt, simply click that button.

BIG point to note:
No matter which SWITCH database you use, the Preferences and Syspaths in the System Folder (i.e. Program Files\Bank Genie) are used by Bank Genie on start-up.
Bank Genie looks at your Syspaths, and then does the SWITCH, if thats how you have it configured using BS026.
To reiterate - When you check the Make this my Start up folder in BS026, you change the Start-up Data Folder value in Syspaths

2b) Reading your explanation, the error you reported looks like you have attempted to do a Backup to the currently open database!
Fortunately, that would indeed generate an error.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: Bill on April 09, 2007, 10:08:31 AM: George,

When I run BS199 I take it that it will replace the Program BS199 in the main folder. Is it then safe to delete the BS202 folder that holds bs199 that was created when I downloaded BS199 last time?

Looking at the latest version list BS199 still reads "issue date 10 Jan 07"

Regards
Bill
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on April 09, 2007, 11:15:11 AM: RE: Looking at the latest version list BS199 still reads "issue date 10 Jan 07"
At time of writing, that is the latest version. (It also shows as Version 3)

RE: Is it then safe to delete the BS202 folder that holds bs199 that was created when I downloaded BS199 last time?
Yes it is. That was a slip on my part.
You will have a program called BS202 of course, but NOT a FOLDER called BS202.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: Bill on April 23, 2007, 05:31:12 PM: George,

I have been out of the loop for a couple of weeks due to a bereavement in the family.
So I have not downloaded any updates since 21-24 March.
I understand from your reply that there was a problem with the program BS199 which created a new folder called BS202 and did not overwrite the original BS199.
This I gather you have now rectified so if I delete the folder BS202 and download the latest BS199 I will be OK.

I also notice that Programs BS008, BS012, BS197, BS201 and bg-fileset-enes.exe have later versions or issue dates so I assume I need to download these also.

What I do not completely follow is you explanation of what was my problem 2
As I was working with the original Bank Genie database and not the new one I had created in my "Accounts" area on hard drive I don't understand how the back up still goes to the "Accounts" area.

If I do a restore as you suggest, will what I have in the Accounts area backup be restored into the original Bank Genie Database.

Are the other things you describe in you reply additions to stop this happening in future.

Sorry to be a bit thick on this one but I don't want to screw up any of my data or finish up with backups of my data that are different.

Regards

Bill
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on April 23, 2007, 08:58:49 PM: Sorry to hear of your family bereavement Bill.

Quote from: Bill on April 23, 2007, 05:31:12 PM
RE: This I gather you have now rectified so if I delete the folder BS202 and download the latest BS199 I will be OK.
Yes

Quote from: Bill on April 23, 2007, 05:31:12 PM
I also notice that Programs BS008, BS012, BS197, BS201 and bg-fileset-enes.exe have later versions or issue dates so I assume I need to download these also.
Yes

Heres the rules for Backups and Restores.
BS197 allows you to configure two backup folders, a) The System Backup Folder and b) the Alternate Backup folder

Backups: Case A: Normal use:
The files which will be backed up are those as defined in the Installation folder.
By default this shows as .\ (in words dot backslash). The full path to .\ is:
c:\program files\Bank Genie

Backups: Case B: Start up folder changed using BS026 (In your Case= Accounts)
If, as in you case, you decide to change the start up folder, then THAT folder will be backed up.

In each case, you use the Backup To pop-up in BS193 to select where you want the backup to go.

RESTORES: Case A: Normal use:
The files which will be restored to the Installation folder.
As above this by default is:
c:\program files\Bank Genie

RESTORES: Case B: Start up folder changed using BS026 (In your Case= Accounts)
ALWAYS DO RESTORES TO THE ORIGINAL FOLDER
Start Program BS197
Click the "Reset to default" button (its a new button on BS197 Version 4 or higher which you download above)
This will set your start up folder back to original settings, as when you installed the system.
i.e. You are now back to being a "normal" user, with default settings, and working in the Original folder.
Now use BS197, then BS193 to do a restore.
The files are restored into the Original Bank Genie folder.
You can see them by using any of the programs, since you have reset your "Start-up" folder to default.

If you think about it, you have gone full circle.
Thus, you can now start the cycle again - You can use the Backup program to save the restored files to your Accounts folder

Watch this when doing a restore:
Start BS193
Click Step 1 then Step 2, and get to screen BS193S02
Scroll down to the bottom of the list box.
The very last line says:
Will be restored to - <and shows the path name>
Under the list box, it says:
Files will be restored from this folder.
Needless to say, double check before clicking the Do Restore button
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: Bill on April 24, 2007, 04:33:09 PM: George

Thank you for the prompt reply I will have a go at what you suggest.

Regards
Bill.
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: barryl on October 09, 2007, 12:01:30 PM: As a new customer coming into this several months later let me first add my support to the original poster who wanted to keep programs and data separate.

While I know that that is not how Micr*s*ft encourage people to design systems, or design their own (all that "my documents" stuff) as an old school systems designer I know that it is the only way to go. Otherwise should you need to backup (eg by system restore) and even reinstall the operating system ALL your data has been lost.

Consequently I think there should be the minimum of pointers in the data space generated by the program (IE just one item!) and everything else should be held where that points to (which could start in the same folder but needs to be configurable).

Secondly, while the changes george has made permit ONE alternative named file (which could be multiples of the same name on different flash cards) this is in my view fantastically over-restrictive. I currently manage about 10 completely separate financial systems and I would like them all the be kept in totally separate files with totally separate backups, all with different names.

This is partly for my sanity to help keep things separate and partly because if I need to share information with a third party I wish to transfer just the relevant data (and possibly have him use Bankgenie also).

Finally (and maybe this should have been a new topic) the backups need to have several generations for better safety (and maybe they should be taken automatically?).
Title: Re: Alternative location for Bank Genie data files
Post by: ideasguy on October 09, 2007, 08:46:34 PM: I should have done this sooner, but I have today edited the initial posting in this topic to indicate that Bank Genie 3 has delivered the separation of Program files and data files as requested in this topic.
Ive posted a link to a document with more information about that change, and others in Bank Genie 3

I'm rather pleased that this happened sooner rather than later (enforced by Vista). It was "messy" to explain the solution described in postings I made in this thread.
Ive gone to great lengths in the Help supplied with BG3 to give the user total visibility and understanding of where Programs and data Files are on their computer.

Since it is out of date, I would like to terminate this thread.

If you have time Barry, would you mind posting the items above in new topics? It would be best to keep each point in separate topics to keep things as focused as possible.
I'm working on Bank Genie this week (mostly your Quicken import facility) so its a good time to get the specification for new change requests discussed.

I have to say I'm delighted to see Bank Genie folk on the forum!