Got down-time? Do plant labels/markers now!

[bossgard]

Having just got the basic data entry entered into PRO ver. 5 I?m getting ready to start getting my label-markers organized. Last year before I had IdeasGenie, I used a M/S Office Word Mail Merge program to make some 3-line durable lasting outdoor labels to mark my seedling trays (propagators) and mark my rows of veggie plantings. They are printed on Avery (#5366) 2/3?x 3-7/16? file folder labels (all white) with a durable, long-lasting, water-proof, black/color ink-jet ink made by Epson. IdeasGuy has the info on the ink and says it is available to him, the only draw-back to the situation is that you would need an Epson printer that takes the Dura-Brite ink.

I then mount the label on 5/8?x6? regular white plastic greenhouse marker by its adhesive, then reinforcing by using a good grade clear 3M (Scotch #3750) package sealing tape to wrap over the label and extend over to the back side of the marker. Very good luck with the labels, I used them to mark my Tuberous Begonias in pots, subject to extensive watering, sun and fertilizing, and as row markers for marking veggies by mounting them on 18? sticks (recycled from fruit tree prunings) by heavy string through the ¼? round hole punched in the top of the marker. I intentionally left some of the markers out in the weather since last May, and while the tape was somewhat discolored from the sun, the black ink is very easily read. So that?s rain, sun, freezing, etc. they have been subjected to. Since I will change what I plant each year, the label only needs to last me the one season.

Since various Gardeners would need various size label/markers for their uses, there are other possibilities for marking plants, even some having a longer life span.  I have some additional information available on those, and if there is enough interest we can discuss further.

Since the label size that I use, is not on the list that the program makes available, George is planning to make that addition, and send me a download. I also plan to experiment placing color photos on the label, whether included on the front, or as an additional label adhered to the back side of the marker. It?s going to be fun to see what the program can do. Please post to this Topic with your input, I would like to read it.

   Toby

[ideasguy]

Toby supplied details of the following label:
Label:- Avery #5366
Sheet size 8 1/2 ins x 11 ins - Its standard size used in US. In the UK, its referred to as Letter size.

Ive added this new label to the options in GA048 (the Labelling program)
and updated program GA048 to handle the 30 labels per page.

If anyone wants t give this a go, the downloads are:
New Label files:
http://www.ideasgenie.com/updates-igpro/labelcds-dl.exe
Click Run to install

Heres the program update for GA048
http://www.ideasgenie.com/updates-igpro/GA048-dl.exe

Instructions:
When installed, Start GA048
The program should indicate Version 8 in the title bar

Click the Label pop-up.
5366 should appear at the bottom of the list

Click New Labels
Screen GA048S02 appears
You should see the 15x2 label template.

Select a Garden Area on the right, and select a plant in a Garden Area (You can only print labels for Plants which are in garden areas) Once you select a plant, click a label on left.

Note two new buttons: Fill All, and Fill Blank Labels (fill labels with selected plant for labels you haven?t clicked yet)

When you click edit, you get to screen GA048S03 You have to type in the text box, for each plant in the label set.
Its free text, so be sure to fill it with at least a few words (probably a copy and paste of the plant name).

Now click print. Do a preview to make sure it looks OK.
Now go ahead and print.

Note the rectangular surround.
Ive put that there to indicate the outlines of the dimensions you gave me.
Do the rectangles match the label positions?

When all is OK, I will remove the rectangle.

Here, its fingers crossed, waiting on news

[diegartenfrau]

Toby,

I am wondering how durable the Avery labels are.
I for one don't want to go through the work of remaking labels every year.
For the flower garden I need long lasting, easy to read labels. I think there is so much work in the garden which has more priority then making labels every year.
I used to use Aluminum labels from the PawPaw company written on them with a graphite pencil. it lasted usually, depending if it was sited in a sunny location or shade from a year to 1 1/2 years.
Then I used permanent Markers, sometimes those didn't last the whole summer. Then I used a oil based marker, that one actually lasted very well on the Aluminum markers. But for my vegetables I use old window-aluminum or vinyl mini blinds, which I cut in different lengths,  none of the markers I used ever lasted longer then a season, even the oil marker.

So two years ago,  I bought a Brother hand held electronic labeler called P-touch GL 100, they have label tape, specially made for gardens or outdoor. So now I make labels with that and I stick them on the aluminum PawPaw labels for the flower garden and on the mini blind markers for the vegetable garden. As soon I get a new Plant, it gets the label.
For the Vegetable labels, at the end of the season, I collect the labels and wash them in soapy water and pack them with the matching seed packet. I haven't had to replace one label since then. Less work is always good, isn't it?

If Avery would come up with a good label, which will last for years, without me having to go through all the steps, of buying a special printer and then to make it last a while, having to wrap the whole thing again with scotch tape, I would probably use the computer to print my labels. But so far I haven't seen any label from Avery specific for Outdoor Use/Gardens and I rather garden then make labels every year. Also it is no fun to loose your plant info and you can't remember where something was in the garden and now you chopped it into pieces, planting something new.

My opinion is, Garden labels need to be  'durable'

But if you know of a garden worthy Avery label, I might change my mind.

Isabell

Here are the links to aluminum labels, they are actually not bad in price and last forever, sometime you have to replace the wire.
 http://www.everlastlabel.com/
http://www.eonindustries.com/lablels.php
http://www.metalgardenmarkers.com/


 

[ideasguy]

I sent an email to Avery (Florida) on Friday, asking them to recommend what labels they recommend for Gardeners.
No reply (as yet)

[bossgard]

Isabell: I haven?t got George?s approval yet, but if he will go along with it, I want to make the Label Making subject my special project to come up with labels that will at least be useful for most of the members of the Forum and the Community.

If you will, will you work on the Vegetable Garden subject with George as you are now doing, (the labels of course, fit right in there too, as you have indicated). As you had stated I believe prior, we?re here to help each other. I?ll read your?s (and George?s postings) on the Veggies and you read mine (and George?s) on Label Making.

I will do my best to research the subject on labels, using all the tools that are at my disposal, and the main contributors here should be the members of the Forum and Community. I would be doing this to service them and you, so I need your?s (as you have done and please keep on doing so), and others input.

As George has indicated, he is contacting Avery, there are other manufacturers of gum label stock, (I owned an office supplies (also print shop) business for 55 years before retirement and sold quite a few labels), so I know some of the manufacturers.

So, I will follow you with the Vegetable Garden subject and ?steal? from you, and I will Google and read as much as I can on the Plant Label subject, and we should both come up top winners. And George will have better software to service our needs, too. It?s kind of that expression ?what goes around ? comes around?. That way, instead of duplicating subjects, you will be the Veggie Garden specialist and I?ll see what I can do with Labels?

I?m familiar with the aluminum labels, I used them when I was a teen-ager raising miniature Glads, only I typed on them with an old manual Underwood typewriter without ribbon in it, like using a steel die. I?m testing the ?Garden Marker? (durable black pen), results are good. I have heard of people using the blinds, also plastic (knife) silverware! The Brothers is a very familiar product since I sold both tape and the machines. I pack my labels, and everything else along with my seed packets, pic?s, etc., like you. Yes, I agree, garden labels need to be durable! And that is the main goal in researching and working with George on this. And yes, we are here to spend time in the garden, too. Just got through turning soil in the veggie garden over with shovel, I let the weather and frost work the soil into better condition, and then cultivate it later prior to planting.

So the input, please. It is so necessary to make this work!

What do you and George (and others) think?

Toby

[NightHawk]

My husband and I run an online address label design service and exclusively use Avery labels.  As far as I am aware, I don't think they are suitable for garden purposes where they are exposed to the elements.  If they are covered in some other form of plastic then they may be okay.  One of Avery's designs is of a clear plastic.  Although we have not tested these, they could be more durable then the other paper labels.  It will be interesting to hear what George's reply is from Avery on this matter.

The labels we have been using for the past 6 months are t-shaped rigid plastic, which we purchased online (box of 200 for £15.00).  The supplier describes them as containing more stabilisers to minimise sunlight induced colour changes or degradation.  All their plastic plant labels have a rough to the touch finish to them which makes them easy to write on with pencil or felt tip pen.  We use a permanent marker pen to write our plant names on, then assign each one a number.  A hand-drawn plan of our planting scheme shows each of these markers, so should anything happen to the label we know what was planted at any given position.

Our garden is not enormous, so this is easy for us to do.  I can appreciate that it would be a much bigger task for owners of larger gardens, where there could be hundreds or even thousands of plants to record.  Still, I think it would be worth it in the end.
Only time will tell just how long-lasting they are.

I hope this information is of some value.

Kathy.

[ideasguy]

Hello and welcome Kathy!
Please feel free to post a link to your labelling business. Your experience with labels and input will be valuable here.

Ideally, we would like a label which can be used in conjunction with the IG Pro Labels Program, so we can use the Plant Names, photos and plant Data in the IG Pro system - no hand writing required.

You have that system, so please do the downloads referred to in this topic so you can try the things we are discussing.

In the case of Tobys  #5366 label, you can print it on plain A4 paper, to see the layout.

Still no reply from Avery.

[NightHawk]

George,

Went through your test stages and tried various pieces of data for the labels.

What I didn't get on the print preview, or the actual printout, was the rectangle around each label to verify if the data was aligned okay on each one.  I would need to see the bounding box to see how much can text can actually fit, as well as if there's room for a small plant photo.

This is the first time I've played with the labels section of IG Pro 5, so don't know if I've missed a step somewhere along the line.  Please let me know if that's the case.

Kathy.

[ideasguy]

Ah - I removed the rectangle for Toby, Kathy
It was only for alignment testing.
The left rectangle (column one) was spot on, but the one on the right needed moved slightly (for #5366).
Toby then informed me that the labels weren't true Avery labels - may be reason for problem.
He's ordered some, and is going to send me a few samples, so I can get it exactly correct.

The good thing was, theres white space between the text and the rectangle.
Due to the white space, the text was wholly within the labels on both columns, so OK for use.
With the rectangle removed, Toby is now forging ahead.

He's also sending me a second label design.

I try to make the text region as big as possible, within the confines of the label design. Its a matter of trial and error (on behalf of the user) to see what you can get on a label, hence the page preview function.

It doesnt have to be plants! You can print anything on the labels, of course.

As for photos:
I have to program the label output to allow photos.
Tobys's #5366 is too narrow, so no photos programmed there (as yet anyhow)
You can print photos with some of the other options in the pop-up, Kathy. I need to check to see which ones - or you could just explore.
Some of the others may have rectangles.

Have you a specific label you'd like to print on? If you have a set of labels there, please let me know what you are using.
Its quite easy to provide new options.

[NightHawk]

Thanks for that George, thought I may have been losing my touch there for a moment. 

We use several label sizes for our design business, and most of them would be suitable for plant info and a photo if required.  Our labels are intended for sticking on envelopes, Greetings Cards, Wine bottles, Jam Jars and such like.  The problem is finding any that are suitable for outside use.

It's possible that Avery have manufactured such a label, but this was not an area we ever looked into when we established our business, so I don't know for certain.  It's probably worth seeing what Avery come back with, then see what is possible.

As you suggested earlier, I have provided a link to our labels web site - Roseberry Labels - www.roseberrylabels.co.uk.

Here you can see what is possible to get on various label sizes, such as the number of lines of text available (dependant on font size) and also an image/photo.  These sizes are the ones we have found to be the most popular, but there are many others.

Once you hear from Avery, hopefully with a favourable solution, I would be more than happy to offer further advice that would be helpful in enhancing the IG Pro Labelling section.

Kathy.

[JohnB]

I thought  I'd weigh in on the label front - it seems to be a pretty lively discussion. Yesterday I came across the website http://www.virtualplanttags.com which might be of use to some of you, and maybe George can find a way to usefully integrate it.

As to tagging plants, I used to write with so-called permanent markers onto plastic tags, but experience has showed that these fade fairly quickly. I've experimented with the very thin copper tags that you can emboss by writing on them with a ball-point. Not very readable though. Simply using a graphite pencil on plastic, copper or aluminum tags works well and is very durable.

Recently I've been using a Dymo Lettratag handheld printer. The clear vinyl tape, printed on in black and then stuck onto one of those copper or aluminum tags looks very good and seems to be holding up well - I haven't seen much fading yet - so I'll give it a couple of years. This works for me as I only use it to tag shrubs and trees.

[bossgard]

I apologize to JohnB and to you others for not answering JohnB?s posting to this GA048 topic. First of all, in way of my introduction to you John, I?m just across the ?pond? from you, and Bainbridge Is., I?m living in South King County (WA) in my parent?s estate which is an English Cottage vintage 1930, and a little less than an acre of property. Grow lots of veggies, my big thing is propagating by seed ? veggies and flowers, so the need for pot stickers was very necessary to me, have small greenhouse, but the landscaping around the house is lacking, hence, the interest in IdeasGenie Pro, having Version 5 since Fall. So we are all the same page, remember, that GA048 exists so that we can use data that we have already put into our Genie data base(s), and not have to re-write or re-enter the same data to make a label.

First of all, info on a good permanent marker (black), see if you can find locally ?Garden Marker? manufactured by DP Industries. Or, try Charley?s Greenhouse & Garden, (Mt. Vernon) http://charleysgreenhouse.com  their item #8725, wonderful business, wonderful people. Should be priced somewhere around $4.00 each. I have used for several seasons now, with excellent results.

I am familiar with Dymo, also Rotex and Brothers labelers. I?m retired from 55 years selling office supplies, and sold all three brands. Although my experience has been with the adhesive not holding and has a tendency to fall off, it seems to work ok for you.

So now some questions for you, and hopefully, for others to consider when thinking about the type of ?label/supports? that you might find useful:
1. You indicate you only mark shrubs and trees, would you consider labeling the rest of your garden(s)?
2. How big are the copper tags you are using and what is the length of the wire?
3. What do you print on your label, just the common name you know the specimen by, or a more complete description?
4. How does marking your specimens make your work easier?
5. You attach your tag directly to the specimen, where, on the trunk, on a branch?
6. Is this at eye-level, knee level, or closer yet to the ground?
7. The information, does anybody else read it, except you, like visitors, etc.?
8. How long would you like your label to last?

The past several weeks I have been trying to be of service to IdeasGuy concerning GA048 and basically completed that assignment today. I have come up with a set of 6 different ?labels/supports? for George to work with. I tried to think as various types of Gardeners might, in making up the set, whether they are Amateurs, Propagators, Greenhouse/Nursery operators, or Gardeners that have their gardens open privately or publicly.  George has indicated to me, that he will be making an announcement sometime in the near future, as he makes additions to GA048 available. These are using products available to US Members, I believe George will be working on UK and elsewhere. - Toby

[JohnB]

Hi Toby - no need to apologize for the time to reply - this isn't a real-time forurm and although I'd like to look at it more frequently, I get distracted by the real world.

I'm glad to hear that you're a neighbor - if you're going to be at the Nortwest Flower & Garden show next week on Wednesday or Thursday, perhaps we can meet up for a coffee and chat. I've used Charley's as a source for a number of things - it's a good local company - I'll look at those tags. Here's a go at answering your questions:

1. You indicate you only mark shrubs and trees, would you consider labeling the rest of your garden(s)?
With most of the perennials, I've inserted their nursery tag either close in to the crown so it disappears under the foliage or mulch - or in the raised beds, I've put these tags down behind the retaining wall or bricks so it's right in front of you as you look into the bed (one can simply pull them up to look at them). I've done it this way so that the planting bed doesn't look like a "bird cemetary" (i.e. lots of little white headstones!).
2. How big are the copper tags you are using and what is the length of the wire?
The copper tags are about 1/2" x 3" and the wire is around 6" long.
3. What do you print on your label, just the common name you know the specimen by, or a more complete description?
I usually put just the formal latin name of the plant on the label - I keep all the full descriptive information in IGP5.
4. How does marking your specimens make your work easier?
I'm not sure it makes anything easier - just that when walking guests around and a "senior moment" hits, I can look at the tag - those "senior moments" seem to be occuring a bit more frequently.
5. You attach your tag directly to the specimen, where, on the trunk, on a branch?
I usually attach the tag to a main branch, or around the trunk above a main branch - leaving the wire loop extremely loose with lots of room for expansion. My intent would be to move the tag once it's lost completely inside the plant and before it strangles something. A friend of mine loops all his tags around the base of his rhodies - he again uses very long wires so that there's little chance of strangling the plant as it grows.
6. Is this at eye-level, knee level, or closer yet to the ground?
I try to be between eye-level and knee level if the plant is big enough - right now, quite a few are between knee and foot level because of the small stature of the plant.
7. The information, does anybody else read it, except you, like visitors, etc.?
I do find my visitors read the labels - but it's mostly my wife or I.
8. How long would you like your label to last?
Forever!!!!  but I suspect that's really wishful thinking. I was just out fertilizing some plants today and some had my older tags which were embossed copper (using a ball-point pen to emboss the thin copper tag). These were getting a bit hard to read, but held to the light the right way, they could be made out ok. These were there about 3 years.

I'm glad that you're helping George adding features and functions to the program - it's the best way for "our" program to evolve!

All the best, John

[ideasguy]

In the US, Toby has been doing sterling work, sourcing and testing labels from different manufacturers, and designs we have worked on together. More about that soon.

On the UK side of the pond, Ive been liasing with Paul Fisher (Gower Fuchsias) and with our new member, William.
As professionals in the Nursery and Garden Centre businesses respectively, they have pointed out a number of label suppliers in the UK.

This one from Paul:
http://www.longcombe.co.uk/horticulture_systems.htm

This one from William:
http://www.lbsgardenwarehouse.co.uk/category.asp?src=08camp11&cat_id=LABELSPENS
These seem to be very affordable to amateur gardeners, for those with a Laser Printer. If you are interested in using the labels program GA048 to print on any of these labels, please post a reply.

Labels design will be back as a priority after Ive completed My Catalogs on CD project.
 

[lacrosby]

Toby - have just looked at this post.  I am doing exactly the same thing as Isabell who posted back in January. 

I am using Everlast labels with P-Touch printer with the outdoor version of their tape.  It work great.  I have had labels outside for several years in all kinds of weather and exposure with little degredation of either the labels or the printing.

As Isabelle mentioned, sometimes you do need to replace the wires which go into the ground to support the labels.

A couple of nice things about the P-Touch system is that you have a choice of colors of both the tape and the print, and you can change the font size - especially good when you enter the bi-focal age.

Best regards,

Larry

[bossgard]

Larry: I am acquainted with the Everlast labels, and the P-Touch printer. I've used them before, happy that they are working well for you. As IdeasGuy indicated in the earlier post, the both of us have been busy checking on various label stocks and supports for those labels for the last several months. I've basically finished my end of the job here (US), and have given all the information that I have at the moment to George.

You probably are also aware, that George has been a very, very busy guy doing a lot of good things for the IdeasGenie family of software ('us'), covering several different facets that will make 'our' software the tops in it's class! We have a little bit more work to do on the GA048, and not knowing George's schedule for sure, we should have the GA048 label program up and ready for you and others to download soon!

The whole purpose behind GA048 is to make it possible for you to use several different layouts and materials for marking your specimens, and be able to make them from information that you already have into your own personal data base of specimens.  You will be able to take that information that you already have, add some special data (edit) if you wish, along with a full color photo, too. 

I'm having lots of fun right now testing the various materials and layouts, particulary in the greenhouse, because I raise both veggies and flowers from seed. I have been field-testing since late last fall, and I'm very pleased with George's work, and the materials and supports are holding up in the weather remarkably well, the colors are as bright as they were when first printed. I do hope that you and other members will be happy with what we have done, and will use the label program GA048. I should mention that I am using an Inkjet printer for these.

Also, George as he indicated previously, is going to work with two members from the UK (I believe) that use laser printers, which I will try to follow and convert to US materials. It's going to be a terrific time doing labels using GA048, and just in time for the coming gardening season.  -Toby

[bossgard]

For those who might have access to BBC's Magazine 'Gardens Illustrated' Issue No. 135 (March 2008), you might enjoy looking at the article entitled 'Designer Labels' on pages 74-77. Nice layout, very well done. In the jargon that IdeasGuy and myself worked out so we were on the same page for working with GA048, we would call these 'label/supports', because actually the 'label' we were so keenly interested in, was the one that would be generated through using GA048 and appling it to a support like those shown.

There were no surprises here for me, because most of these, or ones comparable to them turned up in my research here in the US. As you can see, they are relying on stamping, hand-writing, or carving the data one might want on the support(s). Not a computer generated label in the lot! Will we have an exclusive with GA048? Maybe so!

[ideasguy]

I'd like to see that article! I'll investigate!

The Catalogs on CD projects have now been "delivered" to Imberhorne Nursery and Gower Fuchsias, so onece that is ticking over,we'll be back on the labels project again, and hopefully with their valuable professional contribution.

Thanks for working with me on this one Toby. You've put in a lot of really good work, both researching and testing my Labels and program (GA048)
You've helped me move this project on to the stage where it looks like this is going to be a winner 

[ideasguy]

Many thanks to Toby (bossgard) , who scanned the relevant pages of the magazine and sent them to me as pdf's by email.
A whopping big 10mb file, which yielded 17 pages!!
Your diligence is much appreciated, Toby - I am well impressed withb the quality of the scans- excellent - easily legible.
Thanks to you, I think our labels program (GA048) will be that little bit special!

[ideasguy]

OK, Toby has emailed me with the secret to his success in scanning documents. 

There is a trick to getting those 'perfect' scans, one has to sit on the scanner cover to keep the magazines flat, while using the big toe, right foot, (shoe off) to push the scan button on the keyboard.

So, now you know   

(mumbling... begorrah, he's a nimble young fella...)

[bossgard]

Would somebody please give me instructions on how to post a scanner jpeg image to the Forum. The image shows the five label layouts that George and I have worked on. If I can get it posted, I will then follow up with an additional posting(s). I can locate the image and bring it to the attachments box. Whats next. I thought you would like to see them, expecially with George's Lessons coming up.

- Toby

[ideasguy]

RE:

I can locate the image and bring it to the attachments box.

Thats the hard bit!
So others can benefit, you click Additional Options, then Browse, then select an image.
Once you get the file name showing in the box, click Post
The upload will fail if your file size (on disc) is bigger than 125 kb, Toby

Thats the rules. Tell us where you are getting stuck

[bossgard]

Here is the first image:

[bossgard]

Here is the second image:

[bossgard]

RE:  The two previous postaings, as soon as I can find more time, I'll try to give some descriptive material. I would say for Other Members to start working with GA048, the Label Program, under Labels. Be sure that you have the most current download for GA048 which at least for me, is Version 17. Tomorrow is a busy day for me, but will be back ASAP.

- Toby