The Ideas Genie Community Forum
Our Gardens => General discussion => Topic started by: ideasguy on January 21, 2007, 09:37:17 PM
-
I have a confession to make. When I move to my fathers house, I had a very old hedge as a border to the premises.
In it was mostly hawthorn, but it had become very tall and lanky, too many gaps for a hedge.
However If allowed to grow naturally, they have small, but gorgeous scented flowers.
I cut down some really fine specimens one year, as they were casting too much shade. They were in full blossom, and I remember thinking - I'm going to regret that!
Later, Then I had the hedge rooted out with a JCB.
Since that time I have changed my opinion on hawthorn as a hedge. Ive seen one in Belfast, as a border to a medium sized front garden. It was neatly trimmed, and a beautiful pale green. They were obviously more concerned about foliage, for appearance than allowing the plants to flower and produce berries.
I replaced the hedge with Castlewellan Gold. The hedge from hell!
I absolutely HATE it. Too vigorous, untidy, and it can give you many lacerations when you are trimming. My son helped me one evening, and ended up in casualty with an eye injury, due to a very minor contact with the hedge.
I now realise how important the choice of hedge is in a garden, either for garden dividers, or for a border.
I'd like to hear our members opinions on hedges.
-
Do not insist: your sin will not be forgiven. Your progeny will be struck with blindness by a hedge from hell!
-
Trouble with hawthorn is that the prunings are prickly. Our hedges are made up of it, blackthorn, wild gooseberry, brambles and some hazel. they are very unpleasant to cut. BUT they really do give the birds a safe haven.
-
Now that I recall, I had to fix quite a number of punctures in my wheelbarrow in the weeks after cutting the hawthorn. It was difficult to get all the little pieces gathered up. In the end, I bought a spare wheel so I let it go until I needed to fixed them both.
I havent had one puncture since that hedge was removed.
The birds would certainly be safe. Oddly, my Robn decided to move out of my greenhouse this year (its built there for 2 or 3 years now), and built in a 5in flowerpot lying on its side on the ground on a bank which sloped to the hedge. The open part of the top faced the hedge.
I thought it had no chance of survival (cats). I thought of putting a wire msh covering over it, big enough gaps for mother to get through, but would stop cats. In the end, I decided to let nature take its course. It was fun doing a daily check and watching them as they grew. I think they managed to get away safely, due in part to the grass growing to almost hide the pot. One day last week I went out, and the nest was empty, except for one un-hatched egg.
-
The Police here recommend Berberis as a hedge on the grounds of its speed of growth and extremem thornyness. No burglar is going to go through a Berberis hedge in a hurry and certainly not without injury. Now that would be even worse to cut than hawthorn. We are lucky these days, the chap who cuts the hedges along the road for the farmer will do the top and outside of our hedge as he goes past for the price of a couple of pints. Saves me an awful lot of grief.
-
I have 2 Berberis bushes, Eric. One was planted by my Dad, so it was inherited. I grew the other from a self sown seedling. Berberis is quite good at that.
I gave the inherited one a pruning today, to about 5ft tall and 3-4ft spread. The other is to be removed to make way for other plants.
Ive only ever seen one Berberis hedge. It was wild one year, and looked glorious. Thats when it flowers best, I suppose.
The owners then cut it back very hard (2 or 3 years ago). I must have a look next time I'm out that little country road and see how it looks now.
Any Berberis hedges around you? Have the neighbours taken up the Police advice?
-
None round us, our hedges are all hawthorn etc. and anywhere between 100 and 1,000 years old. I have seen a fair number of berberis hedges in towns though, so obviously people do plant them.
We do have a small section of hedging which contains B. darwinii and it does look super when the flowers are out. They are followed by blue berries which the blackbirds adore. However, it does mean purple stains all over the place and seedling berberis everywhere under where the birds sit.
-
However, it does mean purple stains all over the place and seedling berberis everywhere under where the birds sit.
I had a chuckle at that for all the wrong reasons - based on the spelling of the last word. I'm ashamed :-[
-
It was utterly debilereate (sic).
I did go out to take a picture of our berberis hedge but the flowers have finished and the berries are not yet showing colour.
-
I had a little suspicion that it might have been! Good one.
Its funny how some plants stare you in the face with colour and dont get their photo taken.I might have one of mine as an "incidental" in its unruly state.
There's be lots of photos soon. The Web Page Generator ( a new feature in IG Pro) is almost finished.
-
I've decided to revive this topic.
Hedges per se are good on many levels, but also have their drawbacks (minor and major).
One of the major drawbacks being the maintenance. As already mentioned here, some of them can have nasty thorns - good as a protective barrier for unwelcome people/animals, but bad for pruning.
A minor drawback is the space they take up. For example, if you only have a small garden with narrow borders for your flowers, then a hedge can get quite thick and intrude into your border real estate. Cutting your hedge so that it is 'slimmer' probably then defeats the object of having one as a barrier due to its lack of foliage.
In our garden we have wooden fence panels around three sides of the house with a low wall at the front. These were here when we moved in, so for now they remain. If some of your fences are shared with neighbours then replacing them with hedges is not always an option. They may prefer to have a fence, so could prove awkward. We've not come across any such problems with our neighbours, and none of the fences need replacement due to damage anyway yet, but I thought I'd throw that scenario into the mix.
On the subject of maintenance, that is another minor drawback to fences I suppose. They need to be treated in some way to weather-protect them. Hedges don't need that, the equivalent being pruning :D
With wildlife in mind, hedges are better in several ways. They act as a refuge from predators; they are nesting places; some can provide food sources in the form of berries; and if you have hedgehogs nearby then they can go between several gardens quite happily, whereas fences are an impenetrable barrier.
Personally, I prefer some sort of hedge to wooden fencing. Not being an expert on hedges, my main criteria would be (1) fast growing, (2) dense foliage and (3) berries (food for birds).
As it's been a while since this topic saw the light of day, maybe views have changed amongst our members, or new species of hedge have become popular. Whatever the reason, it would be good to hear from our members again.
Over to you people :D
Laurie.
-
I adore natural hedges found in the countryside. I read somewhere that you can date a hedge by the number of plant species it contains X100. Alas, many of our hedges have been grubbed up to make fields larger and easier to cultivate.
In gardens, my favourite species for a hedge is Beech (also one of my top 5 tree species). It forms quite a dense barrier and the leaves are retained through the winter until new growth pushes them off. Another plant, often overlooked, is Rosa rugosa. The advantages of this species of rose are many; economical to buy, easy to plant, disease free, fast growth, scented flowers, good autumn colour, large hips that attract birds and can be made into wine or syrup and the thorns provide an impenetrable barrier. Annual maintenance consists of a simple clip over with shears, nothing complicated.
Having said all this, I have fences, however, they are adorned with climbing and rambling plants.
Martin
-
I read somewhere that you can date a hedge by the number of plant species it contains X100.
That should be NEW species. The hedges along our lane have over 10 different species in them, that should mean they are 1,000 years old but the Farmer down the road helped his father plant them about 60 years ago when the road was made up. They planted a mixed set of plants.
Rosa rugosa is as bad as Hawthorn and Blackthorn and Holly for producing unpleasant prunings. I like Beech or Hornbeam hedging myself.
-
Hi Palustris,
I had simplified the dating of hedges. Obviously, there are many other factors that need to be considered. The number and type of non woody indicator species is one of them, and, of course, there are correlation coefficients that need to be applied. The latter being true for any extapolation of data where there are variables.
Martin
-
I have a number of hedges in my garden, and have learned a few things from bitter experience.
I also have a number of specimen plants (in groups of 1 ::)) which are frequently used as hedging.
My most bitter experience is roots from shrubs and trees, particularly if you are planning to grow flowers in the same border. OK for a few years, but as the roots extend, they soak up moisture and weeding is an absolute nightmare.
The best?
Re your No 1, Laurie, I'm not a fan of fast growing plants and thats a general statement. SLOW growing means less maintenance at maturity. I guess I'm a patient gardener.
a) Box hedge - VERY slow growing, but nice and dense Laurie. Their roots haven't caused me any real problem, and I grow flowers right in front of them.
I grew all mine from cuttings - dead easy!
b) Yew (Taxus baccata) is a dense, slow growing, dark evergreen hedging shrub that once it reaches its desired height is easy to maintain. Warning - its poisonous to animals. My garden was once invaded by a herd of cattle. The farmer was worried about when I pointed them out.
Both a) and b) make very nice hedges. They need very little clipping to keep their shape.
Both can be used for topiary so if you have time, you can make a sculptured, even architectural hedge.
I grew mine from seed.
The good, but need more maintenance:
c) Hornbeam
I grew mine from seed. The first batch of seed seemed to have failed. I bought some more. Then the first batch germinated! I use them for arches and the Hut- a circle of plants to six feet trained to form a "roof" - a living room for kids to play in (will edit later and show photos)
Quite fast growing, so needs regular pruning to keep its appearance during summer. Deciduous.
Sometimes called the poor mans beech. Don't know why! Its a fine plant in its own right. Leaves are not as glossy as beech.
d) Beech.
Single specimens only. VERY slow growing in my garden, but once it starts, it knows very well that it is a tree!
It is deciduous. Leaves go brown in autumn, but remain on the bush until spring. They then drop off and are replaced by lovely fresh green leaves.
Again, I grew mine from seed.
The nice but naughty
e) Escallonia - beautiful flowers in summer. However, it flowers best in its wild state.
I grew all mine from cuttings.
There are a number of species. I have at least two. One is very fast growing and dense, the other is slow to establish, lighter wispy stems and branches which like to arch if the plant is not pruned.
Escallonia flowers on the long stems. Needless to say, if pruned regularly you have a lovely clipped hedge, but no flowers.
Roots are a problem if you want to grow anything in front of this hedge.
The ones to think carefully about
f) Leylandii
Makes a VERY nice hedge. However, its fast growing and if not maintained, becomes leggy at the bottom and will grow to ginormous heights! As I write, my neighbour has contractors in removing a Leylandii hedge. The original owner passed away, the trees grew and grew. They completely obscured an entire row of TWO storey houses from my garden along the long side of the garden, and houses at the end of the garden.
My elderly neighbour had to bow to the pressure from the occupants. The hedge was on their south perimeter of their small gardens. They never saw the light of day!
The contract cost has run into thousands of pounds.
On the plus side - the neighbour one house further away has the same type of hedge, manicured to perfection - much admired and talked about by everyone.
OK when you are young - beware old age and neglect.
g) Castlewellan Gold
I have a long hedge of this on my south perimeter (all grown from cuttings - took a few years!).
Its a massive job to keep it in check.
I dread to think what will happen later in life :o
I had a hedge of f) and g) at the top of the garden - with the plants alternated.
Looked great, but grew out of hand, and I removed them - some with the help of a digger last winter. I had grown them in front of a boundary 7ft fence. Fortunately the fence is still in good condition (it would gradually have suffered if the trees had been allowed to remain)
Enough for starters!
My advice?
Small garden with flower borders - don't go for hedging- grow a fence ;D.
-
WOW George! - that's a whole bunch of very useful information there :o - excellent.
Plenty of food for thought for everyone contemplating hedges.
Martin mentioned the point of having climbing and rambling plants against his fencing. We too have shrubs, honeysuckle, etc., growing against our fences, so they're giving a bit more natural cover than seeing just bare wood :D
Anyway, it looks like we're getting a good response to this topic so let's keep it going with lots more suggestions and helpful tips.
Laurie.
-
Malcolm is the expert when it comes to growing things up fences! I'm sure he will have a comment to make! I wonder what his take is on hedges?
Heres a photo which shows a small Box hedge (needs clipped) and a Berberis (yellopw flowers, back right) in full glory.
Note that it is a bit unruly - like many flowering hedge plants, thats how it flowers best, unfortunately.
Not apparent in this photo, but there is a path between the box hedge and the gavel of the house.
Acers in the photo are A. Bloodgood (left) and A. palmatum 'Atropurpureum' grown from seed.
-
We built our house in 1955 on the site of an old orchard. The hedges were already established. The north boundary is a nice yew hedge about 9 feet high at its tallest, ideal for sheltering the garden from north winds. The other hedges are holly which look fine but have you ever tries weeding without gloves with skeleton leaves about :o ?
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7161/6700881539_5c45d3d95e.jpg)
The front hedge grew so wide that the only way to keep it trim is to slope the upper part on both sides to an apex.. This was taken in December 2009. If we were starting from scratch we wouldn't have chosen holly but it looks nice when it is trimmed.
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4047/4197988694_d7ac627e13_z.jpg)
Over the years we trimmed the trees on either side of the gate like lollipops :) and this year they are still covered in berries.
Eric
-
Brrrr! Brings back not so nice memories of December 2010 Eric!
Lovely photo though. The lollipops look very impressive! That front hedge is certainly formidable. Trimming to an apex on both sides is a good idea and a nice feature. What width is it, approx?
-
Excellent photos indeed Eric 8)
I particularly like the first one creating lovely geometric patterns on the wall cast by the sun. Great eye for detail Eric ;)
The cutting of hedges to an apex is a method I've heard about on various gardening programs. I recall it was beneficial in snowfall. Instead of the snow laying heavily on an otherwise flat top, and thereby forcing the branches apart and maybe snapping them, the slope allows the majority of the snow to fall off.
Was that the reasoning for you Eric?
Laurie.
-
Anyone ever tried layering a hedge? I have and it is not easy.
-
How do you do that Eric? With Hawthorn?
-
Anyone ever tried layering a hedge? I have and it is not easy.
...and potentially dangerous. I remember the farmer whose land bordered onto my parents house when I was younger losing an eye whilst laying a hedge. There is real skill involved. I have never attempted it but have watched it done during competitions. We have hedge laying, stone wall building and ploughing competitions here in Derbyshire that are interesting to occasionally go and watch.
Martin
-
Are we talking about a job down with a Billhook here?
If yes, Ive seen my dad do that with old Hawthorn hedges where there were gaps.
Cutting a branch using the billhook just enough to allow it to be bent horizontally (stopping well short of actually severing it of course) and bending it down to fill the gap to keep cows enclosed (or excluded as in the case when we first moved to my present home).
The layered branches continue to grow making for a dense hedge again.
I can well imagine the danger in that Martin. A man needs protection when working with those strong thorny Hawthorns. Ive punctured the wheels of my wheelbarrow more than once after such a job.
To get back to topic, I know of a very nicely trained Hawthorn hedge, in suburban south Belfast!
Its about 4 to 5ft high, and seems to be only a couple of feet wide. When I last seen it, I was impressed by the lovely and unusual pale green foliage.
-
Are we talking about a job down with a Billhook here?
Again, locally these are called Pleaching Axes.
Are you located in Northern Ireland ideasguy? I have flown in to Belfast City & International at least 60 times over the past three years. I visit two towns, Banbridge & Lurgan. Alas, never get much time to look at the scenery or visit anything more interesting than a plastic pipe factory :-(
Martin
-
You probably pass through my home town of Dromore to get to Banbridge Martin.
I went on Google before posting my first message to verify that such a tool as a billhook actually existed, or if it was a local name for the tool here. To my surprise they are sold to this day by Spear & Jackson!
I looked again (on the internet) after your posting, and the tools my dad used were similar at the "business" end, but had a long handle. I knew he had two types of hedging weaponry, so I thought a bit and remembered that he called it a slasher. Never find that nowadays I thought, but a quick search gave me this 8)
http://shop.btcv.org.uk/shop/level3/18/stock/247
Irish Slasher - a heavy duty slasher, best for hedgelaying, cutting thicket, and general purpose use.
Yip, that's the one :)
-
That front hedge is certainly formidable ........ What width is it, approx?
I am only guessing George, but about 5 feet wide. Plenty of room for birds’ nests!
I recall it was beneficial in snowfall. Instead of the snow laying heavily on an otherwise flat top, and thereby forcing the branches apart and maybe snapping them, the slope allows the majority of the snow to fall off.
Was that the reasoning for you Eric?
No, Laurie, I had no thoughts of snow. Years ago it was flat on the top and I used to have an awful job trimming it from a top of a short ladder. Then I bought myself a long armed Stihl hedge trimmer. I discovered that it was quite heavy but on sloping areas I could rest it on the hedge as I cut. It seemed a good idea to reshape the hedge. It looked awful for a while but it soon greened over but once done it was so much easier to cope with. I read of the benefits of doing it AFTER I had done it
Anyone ever tried layering a hedge? I have and it is not easy.
It seems like a bygone age, Eric, but there were two brothers ran the farm which is about ¼ mile from us across the common. They kept all their hedges beautifully layered. And I used to go riding down a narrow lane into the valley and be able to see wonderful views. We used to get fresh eggs from them regularly too. Now the brothers are dead. The farm house and barns have been converted and gentrified. The hedges have grown to such a height that the views are hidden more often than not and about once in about three years a tractor drives along and mutilates them.
-
The farm house and barns have been converted and gentrified
Gentrified - now theres a good word! Meaningful and self explanatory :D
...a tractor drives along and mutilates them.
Yes, that's how its done along the main roads and motorways over here.
Any branches of trees encroaching get the same treatment. Mutilated is exactly the right word (yet again 8)) to describe it. So much for the pruning techniques explained in gardening books, to make clean cuts, avoiding splitting, and how to treat the wounds after pruning.
BUT, have you ever seen a hedge killed by such drastic actions?
...but about 5 feet wide. Plenty of room for birds’ nests!
I asked the question to give our visitors an idea of the proportions a mature hedge can make.
The old cliche is so right... they grow on you ;D
-
I asked the question to give our visitors an idea of the proportions a mature hedge can make.
How about this for a mature hedge. This is the INSIDE of an ancient yew hedge at Blickling Hall in Norfolk, taken about 12 years ago.
(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/64/195182013_6fcc3b5362_z.jpg?zz=1)
-
:o :o
What on earth were you doing in there Eric (tee hee)
I'm sure its a lovely haven for wildlife. Observation: No weeds in there 8). As my hedges mature, they become invaded by Ivy and brambles :'( Once the Ivy gets going, I'm in big trouble. It kills hedges. I suspect that's the cause of the gaps in the hawthorn hedges, leading to the need for layering.
Does Yew regenerate when cut back to the trunk of that bare wood Eric?
-
You probably pass through my home town of Dromore to get to Banbridge Martin.
Yes, normally skirt round Dromore on the A1 if visiting/staying in Banbridge first.
Martin
-
If you have time, call in and see the garden next time you are passing Martin.
-
Does Yew regenerate when cut back to the trunk of that bare wood Eric?
My experience is that yew regenerates very easily. I doubt whether it would inside this hedge which was very dark indeed. The light came from my flash.