Greenhouse allotment

[no ideas man]

hi fellow members
                           When you look at the subject title please don't laugh ( well not to loud ), the past couple of seasons i have tried to grow my veg outside with a limited amount of success this season i intend to grow the veg in my greenhouse, what do i hope to grow well, t@m do a range of patio veg? and these are the ones i will be using so far i have growing in 60cm window boxes peas, beans, lettuce,cabbage, cauli, carrot, spring onions, shallots, potatoes, and onions.  The potato is a first early called Foremost and are planted in deep tubs placed on the lower shelf of the stagiing, finally all plants are growing quite well hope there are no problems at a later date i will post results as and when.

No ideas man

Harry

[NightHawk]

I have not grown veg myself in a greenhouse but my parents had great success over the years with the usual tomatoes and then french beans purple beans and mangetout you name it in the bean/pea family.

Their greenhouse is a big one though 12 by 8 feet.

My puny little 6 by 6 foot feels minute after I have been in that one!

Laurie is not keen on veg, I love veg...but to grow for one in such a little greenhouse space seems ridiculous

Good luck with the veg growing, If you are in the UK lets hope summer is a bit warmer this year. My mother's tomatoes never really ripened and were a disaster in the greenhouse for the first time in 30 years!

Kathy

[no ideas man]

hi kathy
            my greengouse is 8'x6' but i manage to cram in quite a lot, i also have a 4'x4' greenhouse which i use for toms good luck with whatever you decide to grow i hope this summer is a better one

Happy gardening

no ideas man

[ideasguy]

Interesting project Harry. Please keep us informed on how it all works out.

Good to see you on-line and posting again. We'd like to seek your advice on another subject.
Kathy & Laurie have posted a question about propagating Prenstemons (in another current topic). I recall you have a number of Penstemons so I'm sure you will be able to give us a few tips.

P.S. Harry is based in the UK, Kathy and Laurie.

[no ideas man]

Hi kathy
             My method for increasing my penstemons is from cuttings, i have not tried growing from seed although it is possible. If you have grown plants from cuttings in the past the principals are just the same, any just in case here is my method,  in june early july take young non flowering shoots from the plant of your choice these should be 3/4" long, take off any surplus stem below a leaf node, carefully take off the lower leaves to leave just the top growth, prepare a 4" plant pot my method of planting compost is a 50/50 mixture of sieved multipurpose compost and vermiculite dip the prepared cuttings in hormone rooting powder and plant the cutting to leave the top leaves about 1/2" above the compost water thoroughly and place in a light shady place out of direct sunlight. At the end of the day this is my method and works for me try it yourself it will work given time let me know the results.

PS you can place 5 cuttings in the 4" pot

No ideas man

harry

[NightHawk]

Hi kathy
             My method for increasing my penstemons is from cuttings, i have not tried growing from seed although it is possible. If you have grown plants from cuttings in the past the principals are just the same, any just in case here is my method,  in june early july take young non flowering shoots from the plant of your choice these should be 3/4" long, take off any surplus stem below a leaf node, carefully take off the lower leaves to leave just the top growth, prepare a 4" plant pot my method of planting compost is a 50/50 mixture of sieved multipurpose compost and vermiculite dip the prepared cuttings in hormone rooting powder and plant the cutting to leave the top leaves about 1/2" above the compost water thoroughly and place in a light shady place out of direct sunlight. At the end of the day this is my method and works for me try it yourself it will work given time let me know the results.

PS you can place 5 cuttings in the 4" pot

No ideas man

harry

I took about 24 cuttings of my penstemons (5 different varieties) about a week ago.

And as before they have gone limp and are hanging over the edges of the pots. I put 4 cuttings per 4" pot

But I am wondering now if I mis-read Harry's above way to take the cuttings. I read it as take a cutting 3 to 4 inches long, should I have read it as three quarters of an inch?? They would be tiny!

Also I may have left the top leaves more than half an inch above the soil, more like 2 - 3 inches.

Was this enough to make the cuttings go droopy? Will they still root or am I out of luck again?

Can I divide Penstemons? 4 of the varieties I have have now become fairly substantial plants.

Kathy

 

[ideasguy]

Penstemons are usually propagated from cuttings, and I'd interpret Harrys cue as 3 to 4ins.
Ive managed to get a whole bunch of new plants from cuttings I took last year - I think it was from my King George plant (I'll know when they flower!)
Try taking more "mature" cuttings. They wont droop like you have mentioned. I took mine much later in the year.
If the current batch fails, just take some more every 3 or 4 weeks. I'd be really surprised if you dont manage to get some to root!

Theres another more fail safe way - layering.
My penstemons tend to lay flat on the ground, and I dont mind when they do, because they send up vertical shoots all along their length, and I get loads of flowers. If yours do that, try wounding a prostrate stem a little where it makes contact to the ground, and pegging it down with a forked stick.

I tried to find our Alpine link to post this web site I found - thought you's be interested:
http://www.franz-alpines.org/
Click the My Garden link.

[NightHawk]

Thanks George, yes I thought it had to be 3-4 inches...three quarters of an inch was a little small 

I decided to have another go and took some more cuttings. I have a Penstemon Sour Grapes in a large pot and wanted to plant it in the border, so I cut back most of the growth to leave (I hope) plenty of new growth for later in the Summer.

This time I did things a little different. I removed all but the very top leaves and those I cut in half and placed the cuttings deeper.
I then left one pot as it was in the cold frame and covered the other with a plastic bag. I did dip all the cuttings in rooting powder but was very very careful to only use a little on the very end. Last time I dipped into deeper powder and wonder if they don't like too much of it.

This is my (probably) last go at cuttings. I will try the layering method next.

I find it very disheartening to keep taking these Penstemon cuttings and they all droop and die. You begin to wonder why you bother. Maybe I should be putting my heated propogator on but last year it didn't work using it.

I also took some other cutting the other week. The french lavender cuttings seem to have all taken but the Imperial Gem Lavender cuttings have not taken at all. Only a couple of the Dianthus cuttings took. All from the same variety Devon Cream, the ones from Widdecombe Fair didn't take at all. They were all put together in the same condtions... my cold frame. I think the greenhouse despite little sunshine, is too warm at times.

I want to see what else I can take cuttings from.....there must be something!

Kathy

[ideasguy]

When you get to talking about the number of parameters in taking cuttings, then the preparation of the cuttings, then the rooting method, it does seem a little complicated.

When you get some personal experience, its really very easy, and when you find the things that work for you then its a very quick procedure.

I'd do the reverse of what youve just done.
If a cutting has very soft growth at the tip (but only if very soft), then I'd remove it (razor blade, just above another set of leaves)
Id then remove the very lowest leaves - razor blade on a piece of wood.
If the remaining leaves were big, I'd cut them in half.
I need at least one set of side leaves on the cutting.

My thinking is that new growth, i.e. when the cutting starts producing new growth (a sure sign of action at the roots) the new growth comes from the axils - where the side shoots, or leaves, meet the main body of the cutting.
Thus I'm preparing with those side shoots mid way on the cutting in mind - for producing new growth.

As for taking cuttings, I look for short lateral stems tht will yield cuttings about 4ins long.
I try to take those side shoots as a heel - i.e. I gently tear the lateral off, so that it comes off with a little bit of the main stem.
If the heel is woody, expect rooting to be slow.
If its semi mature (not soft, not woody) then that to me is perfect.

I dont use rooting compound any more. I'm sure I should, but I'm quite happy with my success rate.
I put about 1in of the cutting into half compost (or peat), half hort grit.
I keep the pot out of direct sunlight for a week or more, in the greenhouse (which as you have said does get quite hot).

[ideasguy]

Heres a photo of a pot of Osteospermum cuttings in my greenhouse.
I bought a batch of Osteospermum from Mr Fothergills last year. This particular one was a real star, and I just let it grow in the greenhouse. It overwintered well and started to flower quite early. One of the long stems got a knock and was barely hanging on to the parent plant. I decided to plant it out, and took the stem off and cut in into sections.
As you can see they were quite woody, but they seem to have taken - judging by the sign of new growth.
Note that the old leaves are dark and a little droopy. The new growth from the axils is light green and upright.

[NightHawk]

I sowed Osteospermums earlier this year and planted them out in the front garden at the beginning of June but at the moment they are single stemmed little plants with one flower 

I am hoping they bulk out a bit, I may go and take the flowers off to help bush it out.

They look so lonely all these plants with one little flower!

Kathy

[ideasguy]

Its early yet, Kathy. I'd leave the flowers on and leave the plants to their own devices.
I think you'll find they will put on a lot of growth end in July and August to give you a stunning display.
Did you have a good hit rate with the seed? What colour are they? I'd love to see a photo.

[NightHawk]

Kathy's just getting ready for work so she'll get back to you on this, when she's had a chance to count them and for me to get a photo.

Laurie.

[ideasguy]

Dont worry about actually counting, Laurie - a general Very Good, Good or Bad would be fine!

[NightHawk]

Osteospermum 'African Moon' - petals have orange tips and base with orange seed head.

I did get a fairly good result from the sowing of these seeds. They are Thompson & Morgan.

Looking more closely at the plants they are starting to bush out from the base, lets hope I get a spectactular display.

Do you take cuttings from them now or later in the year?

Kathy

[ideasguy]

That is a beauty!! You grew that from seed - WOW!
They will grow and spread gradually, Kathy.
I took the cuttings in the photo I put on this forum from an overwintered plant this year.
In the past, Ive also taken them in an emergency situation, when my clumsy doggie broke off a stem - probably around August time.
Some varieties are quite slow to root, but just be patient.

Thanks for the tip-of about 'African Moon' 

[NightHawk]

That's not life size George!! 

Its probably about 2 inches ish across To give you an idea that leaf to the right in the picture is a nasturtium "Buttermilk"

Yes I grew them from seed I sowed on 5th April this year. Then when large enough transplanted them into a seed tray about 2 inches apart. I planted them in the front at about the beginning of June. We had still been having some really cold nights before that.

I scattered Nigella seeds in the front about early May and they have only grown to about 1 and half inches....I expect as of today its rather hot and very sunny (although a little windy) they may start to rocket away. I can but hope....

Kathy

[ideasguy]

2in across is good! They came very quick from seed sown 5th April to reach flowering stage already - well done!

The Love-in-a-mist (Nigella) is a bit slow, but if you allow them to self seed they will be much bigger and earlier next year.
They are lovely plants, and their large seed pods are attractive after the flowers are gone. As you well know, their lovely fine foliage gives the "mist" appearance, so again well worth growing.
Mine seem to have gradually died out, so I'll need to sow some more seed next year.