The Ideas Genie Community Forum
Garden Buildings, Garden Tools and Equipment => General discussion => Topic started by: ideasguy on September 02, 2012, 10:10:37 PM
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Ive had great difficulty with finding a reliable pen to mark the "common or garden" pot stick labels this year and as a result Ive lost the names of named plants which I bought as plug plants and potted up.
As you know we have a good labelling program in Ideas Genie Pro. The best results Ive recorded has been in using my laser printer on label stock sent by Paul (newPlantsguy on the forum) to develop the label templates for his nursery stock use.
The sheets are expensive and our designs to date have been to print on an A4 page. Great if you need multiple labels for one plant, or one or more labels for multiple plants, as you can only print a full sheet of labels.
I needed something to print a reliable and durable label for a single plant on demand.
I spoke to Paul and he told me he uses Brother printers on laminated tape stock.
I did my research and bought this:
http://www.brother.co.uk/g3.cfm/s_page/215760/s_level/223150/s_product/PT2730VPZU1
I paid about half the price shown here by buying on Amazon.
I spoke to Brother to make sure I could print labels from my computer and I'm sure you know why ;)
The printer arrived on Tue last so I had a few hours to play with it before leaving for Manchester on Wed.
The good news is, I can design labels within Ideas Genie for use with this printer, and printed a few samples at 2am on Wed morning, so retired for the "evening" well contented.
Its an expensive little printer, and the tapes are also expensive.
Ive bought samples of 9mm, 12mm - and 23mm tape was supplied with the printer.
However, it will be worth it to mark a plant, leave it on the outdoor staging or plant it outdoors and return a few years later and still have a legible label.
Is it too much for the amateur gardener, I wonder? Is it available in the US Toby?
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Beyond my pocket, so I will stick to pencils which last a couple of years at least.
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Very expensive indeed :(
Not appropriate for our small garden and limited planting, but someone with large gardens and lots of plants could find it beneficial.
Good luck with yours George. Time will tell if the cost of the replacement tapes pay for themselves in the time it saves you to label all your plants.
Follow up reports would be interesting George.
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George:
It’s interesting that you have brought this Topic up for discussion. I'm all for this discussion, because as you point out there is trouble when you are using laser printers (not Inkject) as your method of labeling your plant starts or other forms of plant propagation. I have both mono and color laser printers, and both warn me (as you point out) not to use laser label stock which has the carrier (backing) sheet exposed. Brothers user’s guides suggest that label sheets also should be hand fed in their printers, too.
The most useful GA048 label layout that you made up for me uses Avery (and other mfg’s comparables) #8667, a 20x4, with a total of labels of 80 sheets per page. It’s very useful in printing my seed starts for my veggies. But the only way for me to use a full sheet of 80 labels, was to make 4 (horizontal row) labels per quantity. That would leave me a choice of 20 (the vertical rows) varieties, which isn’t to bad a quantity for seed starts, where I can plan ahead, which I am doing with my veggie bed layout plans as much as possible.
This size label fits my 4” overall length of potstics (the label mount) and just fits in the space between the light rack and the seed trays. I use the transparent return address labels ½”x1-3/4”, I have been able to obtain label stock here in the US, from Avery, 3M, and even generic house brands. So they should be easy to find at your local office supply store. (Avery - #8667, 3M – 3400R, Generic – compatibles.)
George, I’m curious as to why you selected as your Brothers P-touch printer a model with attached keyboard, when you are a software developer? I’d rather make my labels from my plant inventory data, and then they are all spelled correctly (if entered correctly??). Without having done very much research as of yet, I am leaning towards the purchase of a Brothers #PT2430PC, which looks like it will take a myriad of label sizes and colors, and cut various label lengths. It’s also USB attached. And I know, that you will love making up all the layouts for us users! The footprint of this printer will also fit my desk area better.
There link is here: http://www.brother-usa.com/Ptouch/modeldetail.aspx?PRODUCTID=PT2430PC&tab=review#BVRRWidgetID
When you talked to Brothers, did you ask them what ‘type’ of label might be most suitable for the average gardener to use, for propagation, greenhouse, and outdoor use? There suggestions might be very useful with this discussion. Also do Brother Printers only print in black ink, and/or can they print full color photos on labels? With your wonderful software modules that we have to work with, we can do that now. Basically the rule I follow is that I can use my Inkjet Printers for indoor use and laser for outdoor use. Usually you can find label stock suitable for Inkjet and Laser printers with durable adhesive (look for Identification Label stock) to fit your label requirements.
So the questions at hand now, are which of the Brothers PTouch tapes is best to use in our gardening world either as Beginners, Intermediates or Professionals?
- Toby
P.S. I also have information on DIRECTLY printing by laser onto potstic and other signage stock for gardeners. It can be expensive though!
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Don't buy that just yet Toby.
The PT2730 I selected comes with software and drivers.
Its recommended for Horticulture.
It uses TZ tapes, just like the model you told us about. I'm pretty sure the tapes are identical.
Look for the laminated tapes - again they are recommended for use in Horticulture.
I selected the PT2730 for linking to Ideas Genie, and it connects to my computer using a USB cable.
The keyboard is useful for a quick label, when required, not necessarily a Plant ID label.
It probably adds a lot to the price of the product.
Your model PT2430PC looks interesting. I hadn't seen that one on the UK website.
Heres a link to the specifications page:
http://www.brother-usa.com/ptouch/modeldetail.aspx?PRODUCTID=PT2430PC
Note that it says you don't have to install software!!
However, it also says:
Barcoding and database printing available with installation of full version of P-touch® Editor Software (included)
So, for use with Ideas Genie, you would need to install the software, and again it may be the same software as comes with the PT2730. No need for you to worry - it comes free with that model.
I'm not sure if I can make that one work from Ideas Genie. I'd need to get hold of one for testing.
When I asked Brother about support to develop my app to print labels from our Master Database of Plants, using Ideas Genie software, they advised me to contact a distributor :o
I didn't follow up their advice ::)
I had to take a chance that I could make it work myself and I'm relieved to say that I did actually get it printing a plant from Ideas Genie quite easily.
I will look at your model in more depth tomorrow.
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George:
Do you remember working with Phil and his Brothers Priinter PT2100?
I assume that mine would work like this Brothers printer. His finished labels look will good.
You also have it under PT2100 in GA048.
If I did this right, this would be the link to check Phils posting out.
http://www.flowergenie.co.uk/ideas/forum/index.php/topic,1191.msg7659.html#msg7659
Otherwise, do a Forum search on 'Brother PT2100' to view, that's how I found it!
- Toby
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The link is good, Toby. I'd completely forgotten about that :o :o
Ive sent Phil an email to invite his comments now that hes been using the PT2100 for a few years.
We'll see where we go from there.
Ive printed out the Features and specifications of the PT2100 and am comparing them now.
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George, just to let you know that Amazon (US) also has the Brothers PT2730 available to me, and at supposedly a good discount price.
Maybe we both might wind up using the same model of printer, which is fine to me, as long as you don't mind?
I'll hold off until you let me know if I should purchase PT2730, or maybe there's some other model you (and me, and others) might experiment with! Let me know.
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If you go for the same device as me (the PT2730) I can guarantee that I can provide direct printing from Ideas Genie.
If its another device in the PT range then I'd need to do some testing. Perhaps Phil will oblige since he has a PT2100.
Will experiment over the next week or so with my PT2730 when time allows. Its a nice day again here, so I need to get out to the garden to catch up after all those rainy days we have had.
On the brother UK website, I didnt see those alternatives (PT2100 and PT2430).
I took the link to label printers for Horticulture and that (PT2730) was the most suitable for a keen amateur.
I'm relieved I didnt see the other options - I'd still be pondering over which one to go for ::)
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I have placed order with Amazon (US) for 1 only Brother PT2730VP printer.
The 'VP' matches what you had listed as your model number and referenced the link as to what you had ordered.
So we all don't get confused include the 'VP' because there are other models beginning with PT2730! Did not order any tapes, will take that into consideration after 'playing' with the printer, and your 'wonderful to be' label layouts on GA048.
Printer should arrive in several days.
I am ready to get out in the sunshine today!
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Boy, you move quick, Toby! Check your product contents - in my case there was a 4m of 24mm tape included. There may well be a sample tape included in your deal.
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George -
It looks like TZe131 would be the tape I would need to make my #8667 label for my potstics.
Can you do the #8667 as you have it now with the choice of type sizes and registration (flush left or centered), etc?
This translates into a black on clear, ½”x1-3/4”.
I am sure you realize that this is a hint that if you are looking for something to do (and I know you are), then this is a very good label layout for us/we to try out our new Brother tape printers. Isn’t it?
Is bribery an incentive? Should I cross your palm with silver?
- Toby
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George, if you are still trying to find a good gardening label marker, try this one.
I have had good luck with it, but keep it capped between uses, or it will dry out.
The manufacturer's address as marked on the pen is: DP industries, Post Office Box 295,
N. Vassalboro, Maine 04962 (US).
Don’t know if you will find it over there or not?
Try this link: http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/garden-marker-pen
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I have a tape of that size, Toby so will certainly do something quickly for that.
Thanks for the info on the pen. The ones Ive used in the past have been so variable. I can find labels written in pen years ago and they are still perfectly legible. This year, all my pens have let me down!
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I'm working on it folk ;) Printed from Ideas Genie Pro.
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A very GOOD start with using your Brothers tape printer, George!
I’m expecting my printer to be delivered tomorrow. I’ll get it set up and join you when you are ready for me to work with it.
Your shortest potstic looks like about the size of the plant identification ones I use on my seed starts placed in the trays under my grow lights.
Is that the clear, transparent label stock Brothers offers? Or is it white?
And just think all the plant information is already in my computer ready for me to choose and edit in the GA048 LABEL PROGRAM .
Just a few clicks away. Very professional!
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This is the hand-held label printer we are using - Brother P-touch GL200 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000KPFLAY/?tag=hydra0b-21&hvadid=9550948509&ref=asc_df_B000KPFLAY).
(http://www.pixiemouse.com/igforum/brother_p-touchGL200.png)
It uses tape cassettes of widths: 3.5mm, 6mm, 9mm, 12mm, and prints up to two lines of text with various font sizes.
As you know, our previous garden was not enormous and we didn't have a huge amount of plants to label. This printer can be used for single plant labels up to multiple labels.
We downsized with our new house move so this label printer is an ideal companion for our current gardening needs. And it can be used for a variety of other labelling needs around the house too if needed. The labels are designed for outdoor use so weather conditions are not a problem.
We have used it for the past couple of years since we purchased it, but most of the use was at our old house. Since we moved we obviously were not able to see the results of the labels and therefore not test the long-term results.
We are using the labels at our new house so we'll have to wait and see what the results are here over a period of time.
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I came very close to buying that model Laurie.
I can see that it is also a P-touch, so the labels from your GL-200 may well be identical to those from the PT2730PC Laurie.
Do you have a link to a website with labels which are suitable for the GL-200?
Big question, does it kick out a leading piece of blank tape each label you print?
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My Brothers P-touch printer arrived today, afterall!
Have got drivers and appplicaions installed. Had some difficulty, seems like my AVG security was trying to do an update, at the same time I was installing the Brothers. OK, now though.
My sample tape measures 24 mm or 0.94" wide, also is white.
Should I purchase some of the TZe 131 in preparation for our testing, George? I will have to see what the local dealers are stocking, otherwise order online.
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I have some 24mm tape as well, same as you Toby.
I'll be providing label printing for that size. Also 9mm and 12 mm as I bought one tape of each.
Meanwhile,play around with the manual operation (direct from the keyboard).
Tip - look at the User Guide and find the Label button - and select Chain output to reduce tape waste.
Then try using the P-touch Editor software. Its very clever :)
Tip: You can edit a plant name in Ideas Genie, copy the name, and paste it into the Editor software ;D
(and other details of course).
When you get to screen GA100S36, click the Plant Label button.
I may add an additional Print button there for Brother label printing.
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Is that the clear, transparent label stock Brothers offers? Or is it white?
Sorry, I missed that question earlier Toby.
Its black on clear. 9mm wide tape.
Behind the scenes, Ive been corresponding with Phil on all this.
Here's what he uses:
http://www.labelzone.co.uk/100mm-x-19mm-stick-in-plant-tags/p2596 as they were the best price i could find for quantity plus the size being 19mm wide Phil
They come in a roll, for use with another type of printer (expensive but also professional).
They can be torn off for use with the Brother printer - 1000 in a roll, so perfect for me.
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George,
I'll purchase the 9mm in both clear and white, also the 12mm in white only, then with the sample 24mm roll (white) I will be able to test your 3 layouts. Will practice with keyboard as you suggest. As far as the label stock that Phil uses, will purchase that later. Have a lot of experimenting to do!
Just for matter of record, the PT2730VP does show up in printer availability list with GA048.
- Toby
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Here's a test Toby.
In GA048, select a label which you have done for your US size Avery #5366 label stock and edit (or add new).
When you reach GA048S02 and have labels prepared, unclick Preview and click the Print button.
You get a prompt window to allow you to select a printer.
Does Brother PT2730 show up in the selection list?
Don't print yet! Click Cancel.
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I came very close to buying that model Laurie.
I can see that it is also a P-touch, so the labels from your GL-200 may well be identical to those from the PT2730PC Laurie.
Do you have a link to a website with labels which are suitable for the GL-200?
Big question, does it kick out a leading piece of blank tape each label you print?
I don't have a website link for GL-200 labels. We're still using the original tape the machine came with. Just shows how many plants we have to catalogue ::)
When printing the very first label the default blank spacing is 25mm. If you're printing multiple labels you can set the 'margin' spacing between each one to either; 25mm (Full), 12mm (Half) or 4mm (Narrow). You can't change that initial 25mm lead-in on the first label though. So if you know you want to print off a few labels at one go, then you can minimise the wastage.
Also, the machine is a basic handheld - input via its own keyboard. It doesn't connect to your PC via USB cable for direct printing from IG Pro for example.
This serves our gardening needs just fine. The more advanced labelling units being discussed in this topic that allows direct printing from IG Pro is great, and has enormous benefits for our members with much larger gardens than we have.
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Thanks for the additional info on the GL-200 Laurie.
I'm pretty certain you use the same tape as the PT2730. I'm delighted to read that a tape lasts so long!
The sample supplied with the PT2730 is 4m long.
The ones you buy on the net are 8m long.
That leading 23/25mm is a very significant waste >:( and horrendous if printing one label each time.
Lets say we print 7 labels each time - chained (and that would be rare!).
25mm lead + 7x50mm labels+ another 25mm to get the last label out
25+ 350+25= 400mm
8m tape= 8000mm.
20 sessions @ 400mm would use up a tape.
= a mere 140 labels at 7 per session.
Works out at about 7 pence a label (assuming a tape bought at a hypothetical £9.80).
Do youi agree with those calculations?
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Do you agree with those calculations?
It's only 50mm of blank space per single label - 25mm before and 25mm after your text.
If you print several labels in one go your calculations don't apply. Using your example of 7 labels, if the minimum margin is set at 4mm, then you only get 4mm before and 4mm after each bit of text - therefore 8mm per label in that instance.
So, it would be 25mm lead-in for the first label + 7x8mm labels = 25 + 56 = 81mm
The gap on the last label would also be 4mm when you press the 'cut' button. The machine doesn't automatically set the 25mm length at this stage as the lead-out, because it thinks you may be adding more labels. Pressing the cut button manually ensures this.
So the grand total would be 81mm + 4mm = 85mm.
You have the option of manually adding more blank space at the end of your last label if you wanted to, but I don't see the need.
Does that make more sense George?
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mmm no :-\
Is your 85mm figure the total white space/waste when printing 7 labels?
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Is your 85mm figure the total white space/waste when printing 7 labels?
That's correct George.
(1) 25mm lead-in at the start of the first label = 25mm.
(2) 4mm margin at the front and the end of each label = 8mm per label.
(3) 7 labels to print is 7x8mm = 56mm.
Total: (1) + (3) = 81mm.
I actually added 4mm more than I should have done in the last posting (85mm), as the 4mm at the end of the last label had already been factored in.
The labeller puts a colon at the start and end of each of the consecutive labels as a marker for cutting with scissors when the printing has been done and you've cut the labels with the machine. No other tape gets added in this process.
The 4mm minimum margin is not really 'wasted space', it's needed to give formatting space between each label.
Unless I'm a complete numpty and got my maths wrong I can't really explain this any better, so I hope it makes sense this time :P
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In my calculations example, Ive used a fixed label size of 50mm.
That includes the margin you have mentioned.
When printing from the software, you select a label length. Ive opted for 50 for the testing Ive been doing. With that setting, I can do a preview. It text is too long it gets truncated in the preview and print. I will produce various length label options in Ideas Genie Pro (e.g. 40, 50, 60 and 70).
If number of characters is small, the label length is fixed as described above, so the user may wish to use a shorter label option and vice-versa.
When you print from the keyboard on the PT2730, and use chain output, you can produce something similar to your example. The label length is shown in the printers monitor as you type characters. If too long you can change the font size, or split text over 2 or more lines (depending on the height of your label stock).
One line of 10pt text looks good for 9mm tape. Bold makes it even better.
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George,
With the label test using #5366 in GA048, when I clear preview and click print, YES the Brothers PT-2730VP is shown!
Also a question regarding GA100S36 that you had mentioned earlier, when I click on LABEL DATA. I knew this was available.
What size of label are you thinking to use this on, and what would be its main purpose?
I can see it possibly as a label to stick on the outside of pots, perhaps that were propagated for a Plant Sale or something? Perhaps, an Avery #6572, 2”x2-5/8”, white permanent multipurpose label. Total 15 labels per (US) 8-1/2” x 11 label sheet. Or whatever similar, using the new Brothers PT-2730PV.
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Hi Toby
RE: when I clear preview and click print, YES the Brothers PT-2730VP is shown!
That's fine. All is OK and you will be able to use the label designs I come up with.
The label design in GA100S36 is quite limited - quite simply for Avery 2x7 address label stock on A4 paper which I had readily available at one time. It prints all 24 labels with the same details, so yes, good for lots of plants of the same name in pots.
I'm working on a label at present. More later.
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RE: Is that the clear, transparent label stock Brothers offers? Or is it white?
Sorry, I missed that question earlier Toby.
Its black on clear. 9mm wide tape.
Behind the scenes, Ive been corresponding with Phil on all this.
Here's what he uses:
http://www.labelzone.co.uk/100mm-x-19mm-stick-in-plant-tags/p2596 as they were the best price i could find for quantity plus the size being 19mm wide Phil
They come in a roll, for use with another type of printer (expensive but also professional).
They can be torn off for use with the Brother printer - 1000 in a roll, so perfect for me.
Yes a nice cheap affordable label i went for this size as i use 18mm TZ taper in my pt2100 as i found that size offered the best value for money and i can still fit 4 lines on it at 50mm length, to get over the problem of the extra bit of tape i always select to print out 2 labels (if doing 1) basically printing out 1 extra label so as the extra label is left in the machine and it will finish printing off next time i go to print more, hope that makes some sense
phil
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Well, I got my Brothers PT-2730VP to do this:
I printed out an identification label using text data from a M/S Excel file that was on my computer.
I hope the scan turns out OK.
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Or would this scan look better?
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Can see both loud and clear Toby 8)
You've done well to master printing from the Excel file.
I'm still working on printing from Ideas Genie Pro - had to make a design change which set me back a bit.
RE (Phil) hope that makes some sense
Yes, Phil, I can see the logic in that method.
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george toby are you both using 23mm wide tape, how many lines have you managed to get on it
phil
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I am providing two designs initially in Ideas Genie Pro for the PT2730.
The first has larger text - 4 lines of text.
The second is smaller text - 5 lines of text.
I'm experiencing a limitation on the printable height - it doesn't print over the 24mm - seems to be a white space needed at top and bottom of text region.
I'm hoping this willl work for your PT2100 Phil.
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Ideas Genie Pro Program updates are now ready to download - for anyone wishing to use their Brother printer directly from Ideas Genie Pro.
Ive started a new topic to discuss this new development:
http://www.flowergenie.co.uk/ideas/forum/index.php/topic,1811.0.html